hello folks i have perused the off grid topic and would like to add my two cents worth. i have available in northern ontario a property that may be suitable for off grid, pioneer like living. my own efforts a few years past now allowed me use for a few days straight before a return to town would be in order. however i believe a concerted effort of a couple years and some help would allow the development of a small community. i dont think there would be much self sufficiency available from the land itself but could provide housing for folks that were to interact with the local community, outside of the property. i KNOW that it would be a challenge to open it up to the point that it could become habitable for year round use. the most critical element of start up would be rock, brick block, and gravel to establish a link with the county road. as well some small scale earth working equipment. next issue after that would be the establishment of a water source that would collect from the surrounding rockscape and reserve it for use by community members. again the use of earth moving equipment would be a massive ad advantage in this respect. after the establishment of, or even during their development some structures and infrastructure could be prepared for a few people to begin habitation of the surroundings. my biggest concern would be that some people would become problematic and then take legal measures to dispute a lawful matter. without giving up ownership and ultimate control of the property, how would i be assured of good people participating and be assured that ill intent is responded to that would satisfy the community? should these remarks pique the intrests of some folks i would sure like to hear from them. perhaps there may be hope for some of us yet.